by Craig Sullivan | Oct 17, 2024 | Media Release
The Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry (ACCI) has expressed concern at reports of physical threats to industrial officials regarding the administration of the construction division of the CFMEU.
Australia’s largest and most representative business network is responding to reports that the administrator Mark Irving KC has been warned by police of “credible threats to undermine his efforts to clean up the union and industry.”
It follows the revelation by ACTU Secretary Sally McManus that she minimises going out and is living in several different locations out of concerns for her own safety.
ACCI chief executive officer Andrew McKellar says no-one in Australia should fear for their own safety in their workplace.
“People in positions of responsibility should be able to do their jobs and conduct their business without being subjected to threats and intimidation,” said Mr McKellar.
Mr McKellar also said the business community supports the appointment of the administrator and any further work that would clean up the building and construction industry.
by Craig Sullivan | Oct 15, 2024 | Transcripts
Event: Andrew McKellar interview on Nine’s Today Show
Date: Tuesday 15 October 2024
Topics: Debit card surcharges and changing the legal definition of small business employers.
E&OE
Karl Stefanovic:
Well, the government has this morning revealed that it’s prepared to ban debit card surcharges, which would save Australians upwards of 4 billion a year.
Sarah Abo:
Let’s bring in CEO of the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry. Andrew McKellar in Canberra as well. Now, Andrew, good morning to you. So subject to review from the RBA. This could be implemented as soon as next year. Do you back it? I guess there are concerns the banks might just pass this cost onto their customers.
Andrew McKellar:
Well, good morning, Sarah. Good morning, Karl. Look, I think from our point of view, this is a move which is about consumers, about individuals, but also small business because in many cases, small businesses are facing these charges, it’s not necessarily linked to the costs of providing the service. And in many cases, of course, they’ve got to pass it through. So it can amount to a significant proportion in the cost of a good or service that’s been provided, you know a cup of coffee, if you’re paying a 50 cents surcharge, that’s a pretty significant slug. So look, I think it’s a welcome move. I think it’ll be good for consumers and it’ll be good for small business. We just want to ensure that these sorts of fees or surcharges, that they are transparent when they’re being applied. They should be fair and business shouldn’t be expected to pay an undue amount.
Karl Stefanovic:
Well, let’s hope the banks don’t find another way of passing it on.
Sarah Abo:
Oh exactly, yeah.
Karl Stefanovic:
Meantime, business lobbyists want the definition of a small business expanded from 15 workers or fewer to 25. Why do you want to see this change?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, look, Karl, it’s all about giving small business a fair go. At the moment small business is struggling, it’s struggling with higher costs, and it’s also struggling with the impact of having to comply with a lot of new rules and regulations, particularly when you want to employ somebody in your business. So we’re saying for those small businesses, let’s give small business a go. Let’s give them more time to focus on the important things, and if they want to create a job, make it easier. We want to keep the labour market strong, we want to keep unemployment low, so let’s give small business an even break.
Sarah Abo:
It doesn’t sound like Labor is on board with that, we’ve got the employment minister on a little bit later. Andrew, thank you so much for joining us this morning.
by Craig Sullivan | Oct 14, 2024 | Transcripts
Event: Andrew McKellar interview on Sky News
Date: Monday 14 October 2024
Topics: Changing the legal definition of small business employers.
E&OE
Tom Connell:
Nation’s small business lobby group is calling for small business exemptions to be expanded to reduce red tape and also looking to redefine what is a small business. Joining me live is Andrew McKellar from the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry. So small business, 15 people is the definition. You want to nearly double it to 25. Why?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, it’s only 15 in most parts of the Fair Work Act. Of course there are other definitions that are used. But look, we think here the big issue is small business is facing real challenges in terms of the cost of doing business and also the regulatory impact, all of that time that they have to spend dealing with red tape. So what we’re saying is let’s make it easier for small business. Let’s give them an even break. Let’s lift that definition and take some of that burden of having to do all of that paperwork away and hope that they can create jobs and employment as a result.
Tom Connell:
I know we talk about red tape and I wouldn’t want to have to deal with it personally, but aren’t there more tools than ever computer programmes, even AI, the ability to deal with this? Isn’t it better than it’s been before? Why do we need to change this definition now?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, I think that there are a lot of tools, but the evidence that we have is that in the past 12 months or so, it has got a lot tougher for small business. So we surveyed small business earlier this year. More than 61 per cent of all respondents said that burden had increased in the past 12 months. Nearly half of all businesses, small businesses said that they were considering closing their doors as a result. The big change in that period of time has been the new rules that have come in, in terms of industrial relations, in terms of workplace arrangements. That’s making it, I think, a lot harder.
Tom Connell:
I’ll get to more on that in a moment. But in terms of if there was this change, this would also make it easy for business. When you say red tape, I mean there’d be fewer rights for workers, wouldn’t there? In terms of whether you are small or the next category up?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, not really. And I mean, I think for example here, it’s not a case of removing protections for things like unfair dismissals, but it is saying small business should have more time to adjust and more time to deal with those issues. So at the moment there’s a six-month provision for any business that’s over 15 employees, we’re saying simply push that period up to 25 employees. After that, it’s a 12-month period of grace that those small business…
Tom Connell:
Does make it easier to get rid of someone though, doesn’t it?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, it means that you can bring somebody on under a probation. You can ensure that they work and fit with your business. If it’s not going to work out, then that’s known in advance.
Tom Connell:
And that’s fair enough to argue that logic. But that is easier to not continue with it to have someone in a job and they’re no longer in a job. That’s the reality of it.
Andrew McKellar:
Sure. But look, I think the main point here, Tom, is it’s not about making it easier to get rid of people who don’t work out in your business. It’s much easier to make a decision about creating jobs and employing people.
Tom Connell:
We hear a lot from business around winding back some of the unfair dismissal changes. Is there any other specific example you’d point to where you would say a business should have the right to dismiss an employee that’s too hard to do right now?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, look, again, I think this is the wrong question. It’s not about the right to dismiss. It’s more about how do we create jobs? How do we make it easier? If you need to take somebody on as a casual employee, when do they have the right to convert? Potentially, how soon does that come? When do you have to start dealing with that paperwork? How do you work with an independent contractor? Do you have to let a union delegate to come on site? Do you have to give them leave or time off or pay them to be away from work? So it’s really questions and issues like that. Things that are taking up time that are not productive and not about creating jobs which serve the purpose of the business.
Tom Connell:
How much is this happening, this unwanted requests to become permanent?
Andrew McKellar:
It’s a significant factor. As I say, when we go and talk to small business, we find that 80 per cent….
Tom Connell:
So it’s happening. They don’t want to do it. They say, look, it’s a casual position. I’m sorry, it’s not certain enough right now. But they’re being forced to begin that process.
Andrew McKellar:
Absolutely, and that’s the response. Those are the issues that small businesses are raising with us. We think this would make a real difference.
Tom Connell:
Good. We’ll leave it there, Andrew McKellar. Thank you.
by Craig Sullivan | Oct 14, 2024 | Transcripts
Event: Andrew McKellar interview on Perth radio 6PR
Date: Monday 14 October 2024
Topics: Changing the legal definition of small business employers.
E&OE
Gary Adshead:
Andrew McKellar is the CEO of the Chamber and he joins us on the line. G’day, Andrew.
Andrew McKellar:
Good morning Gary. Great to be with you.
Gary Adshead:
Now mate, I’m not sure whether it’s the ACTU have sort of tried to hedge you off at the pass here, but what are you planning or looking at or asking about in relation to how we define small business?
Andrew McKellar:
Yeah, sure. Look, what we want to do, we want to shine a light on the challenges that small business is facing at the moment, and we want to make sure that the major parties are thinking about what is the best way to give small business an even break as we come up to the next election. Because at the moment, small business is facing two major challenges. One, they’ve had rising costs of doing business just like everybody else, just like households, just like individuals. It’s getting more and more expensive for a small business to be able to actually get their materials, get their inputs, engage labour, all of those things. The other thing which is absolutely killing small business at the moment, and that is the rising burden of red tape. So one of the things we are saying is make it easier for small business, increase the definition of small business in the Fair Work Act from 15 to 25 employees that will carve out a lot of small businesses who are really struggling at the moment. It’ll make it easier for them to comply with the red tape burden that they currently have
Gary Adshead:
Because obviously Sally McManus just forecast that you mentioned, you talk about red tape and saying that this is about making life easier for small business employers. She says it’s about making the way that you can deal with the employees easier for the employer by way of casualisation of workforce, et cetera, because the same protections won’t be there. What do you say to that?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, it’s not about reducing protections. What it is about is it’s about making it easier for small business to make the decision to create a job or to employ somebody and then cutting out the level of compliance and red tape and the difficulty they have to go through and the timetables and the decisions, the reporting, all of those sorts of things which just make it impossible for many small businesses to employ people and in many cases we see small businesses getting to the point where they say, ‘it’s all too hard, we’re going to close the door.’ Now if you want to strip somebody of their entitlements or their rights at work, the way to do that is to run the risk that a small business is going to shut down or that somebody won’t have a job at the end of the week. So I think really here the ACTU are missing the wood for the trees.
Gary Adshead:
So just tell us what difference it would make to someone in a small business then if that definition went from 15 or less to 25 or less.
Andrew McKellar:
Well, yeah, and there’s a whole raft of things at the moment, which small business has to consider. The threshold at the moment in the act for everything except for one provision is 15 employees. So whether it’s multi-employer bargaining, whether it’s engaging somebody under a labour hire order, paying union workplace delegates for time off to undertake the union training, the casual employment conversion deadline, all of those things, those are all at the moment cutting in at 15 employees. So what we want to see is make it easier for a business with up to 25 employees to be able to go about the decision of how to run their business. They don’t normally have their own HR department or they’ve got to engage an external lawyer to make sure that they’re getting all of these things right. That’s added cost, that’s added time that they don’t have.
Gary Adshead:
How is the backbone of the country going at the moment in terms of where the economy’s at, where unemployment’s at and so on in terms of small business would you say?
Andrew McKellar:
Look, for many small businesses, they’re doing it very tough and you don’t need to look further than the sort of figures we saw last week. Record levels of insolvencies. Now that’s not all just economic conditions. Of course there is a backlog of small businesses perhaps who were buffered during the pandemic and now some of that is coming home to roost. But earlier this year we surveyed small businesses. We found 82 per cent of respondents said that they find red tape compliance is a major issue for them. 61 per cent of businesses said that that burden had gone up significantly in the past year and nearly half of all businesses, half of all small businesses, 45 per cent said in the past 12 months they have thought about closing their doors. That’s not a situation which is comfortable or acceptable. And I think that’s why we say, look, small businesses is a major part of the backbone of the economy. Two and a half million small businesses out there, we should give them a go.
Gary Adshead:
Who is it? The minister, workplace Minister Murray Watt, has come out, just so you know, and stridently said that there’s no chance of them changing it, not thinking his words. I’m reading from a quote on ABC, which said that he, he’s not going to make it easier for small sized businesses to sack people unfairly. How do you feel about that?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, I’m going to read you another quote and that’s a quote from Senator David Pocock when he agreed to support the government’s workplace changes legislation in February this year. And he said that he had done a deal with the government and it was that small businesses will also be carved out of the civil penalties provisions and the “government is open to a review or to review the definitions of small business across commonwealth legislation to consider their appropriateness”. So that was an undertaking that was given to get the support of the cross bench to get their legislation through. So I think I’d like to remind the minister, I’m sure his advisors probably are doing that right now, but that’s a commitment from the government and I think the government should be held to account for the commitments it gives in order to secure passage of its legislation.
Gary Adshead:
Now of course we do sort of edge closer to a federal election. The opposition say that it’s something that they will consider. Are you asking them to take this to the election as policy and is there a risk involved in that given that there are people who work in small businesses that might be nervous about the definition change?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, I think this is a great thing for small businesses. We’ve got to, I think, give small business an even break. We’re asking the major parties to be mindful of this and of course we would hope that the major parties will be there to support small business in the next term of government. So whether it’s the existing government, whether it’s the opposition as we go to the election, small business has got to be on the radar screen. That’s what we want to see. We’re going to stand up for small business and we want them to do that as well.
Gary Adshead:
Alright, well like I said, it’s emerging as more of a political argument as we get closer to the election. I appreciate you coming on and speaking about it with us today.
Andrew McKellar:
Perfect. Thanks very much. Gary.
by Craig Sullivan | Oct 14, 2024 | Transcripts
Event: Andrew McKellar doorstop at Parliament House Canberra
Date: Monday 14 October 2024
Topics: Changing the legal definition of small business employers.
E&OE
Andrew McKellar:
Look, just wanted to make some comments around small business this morning. We want to shine a light on the difficulties that small business is encountering. Currently there are two main issues. Small business is grappling with ongoing higher costs to do business, and they’re also struggling with an increasing burden of red tape. We think that to reduce that impact of regulation, the best thing that should be done is to increase the definition of small business In the Fair Work Act from 15 to 25 employees, we think that would have a very significant impact in helping to reduce the level of compliance and red tape that small business has to deal with under current arrangements. Thank you.
Journalist:
Fundamentally, can you just fill us in, what would change by changing this definition from 15 to 25 from your perspective? What changes there?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, I think it makes a significant difference. At the moment, small business is really struggling with the new regulations that have come into place under the IR law changes, it applies to everything except currently multi-employer bargaining. So really it’s across the board. It’s having a broader impact. What we want to do is get to a situation where small business finds it easier to create jobs, to employ more people. At the moment, they face too many hurdles. The level of regulation has gone up significantly in the past 12 months in the past two years. Earlier this year, we surveyed small business, 82 per cent of small businesses said that they are struggling with the level of regulation compliance. At the moment, nearly half of all businesses, 45 per cent of small businesses, said that they had considered shutting their doors in the last 12 months. We want to change that dynamic. We want small business to be given a fair go, to be given an even break and to have a much better chance to thrive and grow in the Australian economy.
Journalist:
Now the minister has come out this morning being very definite that this is something that they’re not going to do and cited concerns around the unfair dismissal. What’s your response to that?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, I think it’s very puzzling because only in February this year when the last trench of legislation was passed, the minister at the time Tony Burke, agreed that they would have a review of the impact on small business. So it’s very strange that the current minister would be walking back from that commitment. That was an undertaking that was given to cross bench senators, in particular to Senator Pocock in order to get their support for that legislation to be passed. So if they’re walking back from that, if they’re saying that they’re not going to undertake that review, which they committed to, then I think that would be wrong. So we would urge the minister to go back, check the record, and ensure that they are undertaking a genuine review of the impact of the legislation on small business and to consider the definition of small business, not just in the Fair Work Act, but right across the board. That was their undertaking.
Journalist:
So do you think perhaps with a change of minister there’s now been a change of approach?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, I mean it’s the same government. So I mean we don’t just deal with ministers in isolation. This is a commitment that was given by the government to the cross bench when they were seeking their support to pass this legislation. So I think they’ve got to be consistent. They’ve got to honour their word. They said they would look at the impact on small business. We’re saying the time is right to do that and we urge them to honour their promise.
Journalist:
The ACTU’s Sally McManus, she’s also spoken this morning, seems that she’s in lockstep with the minister. Are you concerned here that the government is too aligned with the unions in this and not listening to small businesses?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, we are concerned and we do urge the government. Of course the government can talk to a range of different views around the economy. But the views of small business are absolutely critical. 98 per cent of all businesses are small businesses. Small business is doing it tough at the moment. They’re struggling with higher costs, they’re struggling with compliance and red tape. We think it’s important if you’re going to grow the economy, if you’re going to create jobs for the future, you’ve got to give small business a fair go.
Journalist:
Are you preparing to gear up? We’ve got an election coming, it’s looming. We don’t know when it is to fight on IR. Is this what you are planning to do to run a campaign and start lobbying on this to make it an election issue?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, I think what we we’re highlighting is that small business is important for the Australian economy and when you change the laws in industrial relations to make it harder for businesses to comply, to make it harder for businesses to make the decision to take on new employees to create jobs, then that is an issue that the major parties have to think about. We want the next government to give small business a better deal. We want to see the next government being fair to small business and of course we’re going to be highlighting those issues with the major parties in the run up to the election.
Journalist:
The Coalition today didn’t say either way, it was a bit confusing the response this morning. What do you make of where the Coalition’s at on this?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, look, I think the ball is in the court of the major parties. So small business is crying out that they are facing tough times at the moment. One of the things they’re struggling with most is complying with the red tape burden that they have. So I think whether it’s the Liberal party, whether it’s the Labor Party, we’re urging those parties to consider small business and to come forward with policies in the context of the next federal election, which gives small business a fair go.
Journalist:
Do you think the Albanese government is underestimating how the potential vote of backlash from businesses, not just small businesses, but medium to large as well? What’s the sentiment or perhaps tell us what the sentiment is like at the moment?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, I think what you’re hearing from the business community reflects some of the pressures that are out there, that individuals that households are facing, the cost of business has been going up. The opportunities to run a business have been getting more difficult. We’ve got to attract investment to Australia. We can’t take these things for granted. We really do have to put our best foot forward. Now small business is absolutely critical as part of that equation. If we don’t give small business a fair go, then I think the major parties will see the reflection of that at the ballot box whenever that may occur.
Journalist
Sorry, I was here late. Have you touched on the Pocock promise?
Andrew McKellar
I have Phil, so look, I think it’s a very important issue. I mean the government, the minister at the time gave a very clear undertaking in order to secure the support of cross benches for the legislation that they put forward earlier this year. They gave an undertaking that they would review the definition of small business, not just in the Fair Work Act, but across the board. So I think we take the minister back to that commitment. We urge them to honour the commitment that was given at that point in time and we would expect that they will be held to account if they don’t honour that commitment. Thanks. Very good.
