ACCI CEO Andrew McKellar interview on 3AW Mornings about tertiary education pathways
Transcript: 6 July 2026
Andrew McKellar:
Hi, Heidi, it’s great to be with you.
Heidi Murphy:
Lovely to have a chat with you too. Would you prefer more of us going to trades?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, I think it's an important message here and I think what we are saying is we've got to get the balance right. So, certainly over a number of years we've seen increased emphasis on people going into universities. I guess what we're saying is that's not the only option and we should be doing as much as we can to promote the fact that there are very good career options for people who want to go into vocational education and training. And in many cases, they'll come out with much more practical qualifications and skills that are going to be leading them into rewarding careers, rewarding job opportunities, and ultimately, outcomes that will be more productive for them and for the economy overall. So, we don't want to just put all the emphasis on having a university degree.
Heidi Murphy:
I thought we had started moving away from that emphasis in the last couple of years. You don't think so?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, I think there's still a concern that there's too much weight on the importance or the value of having a university degree. I think we can always highlight the fact that we need a more balanced approach. So, by all means, we want to see more people getting some sort of tertiary education opportunity, but whether that's in a university or whether that's in a TAFE or in a private vocational education provider, those options are there and we've got to get that balance right. We certainly support the goal that governments put out there as part of the Universities Accord to see about 80 per cent of people having that opportunity by 2050. And we hope that the balance is there, roughly 50-50 between the university sector and the other areas of vocational education and training.
Heidi Murphy:
Where do you reckon the balance is sitting at the moment though? If it's meant to get to 50-50, where do you reckon it is at the moment?
Andrew McKellar:
Look, I mean we've certainly seen huge growth in the universities and we're seeing, I think on the data back to 2021, around 40 per cent of people were in the university sector. We do see in a number of areas that other aspects of training — apprenticeships for example — we're seeing commencements dropping back in that area. And apprenticeships are a great way for people to get a skill, to learn a trade or even a non-trade apprenticeship. These lead to very viable careers and we've got to ensure that the system supports people to take those sort of options, those sorts of pathways, because the outcomes can be extremely beneficial for them.
Heidi Murphy:
Technical schools, we had a lot of them in Victoria for a long time, but they've been gradually phased out. I think it was the 80s and 90s, they really all mostly disappeared. Should we be moving back to the tech school model in a much more formalised way? I know we've got the TAFEs, but do we need to do more to build them in terms of size and scale?
Andrew McKellar:
Look, I'm not sure that it's a solution like that. I mean, we do have many very good providers across the sector, and one thing that people don't often realise is that there's a lot of talk about TAFE and we have some excellent TAFE institutions, but equally private sector providers account for about 80 per cent of that market, and we shouldn't lose sight of the incredible role that many of those private providers do offer. So, I think that's got to be an important part of the solution. But I think another thing here, Heidi, to recognise is what we are seeing is about 20 per cent of those students that are coming into the vocational education and training stream, they already have a university degree. So that points to the fact that many students are going to university first and then they're finding that doesn't offer them the practical skills and training that they want in terms of the career choice that they end up taking.
Heidi Murphy:
After they've run up a huge HECS bill on the way through.
Andrew McKellar:
Well, that can be part of the system, yeah.
Heidi Murphy:
Some of the traditional, I guess they were trades back in the day. I know nursing always comes up. You used to just go to nursing school and you would just all be at a hospital. You would just learn your trade over the years rather than going to get a degree and then do your prac placements. Have we dropped the ball on that a little moved too much to the professionalising of some industries?
Andrew McKellar:
I'm not so sure in nursing. I mean, I think that there are very important skills and knowledge that are I think delivered through the university qualifications there. But look, there are certainly, I think, many areas where we need to ensure that within the system there's recognition for prior learning that people have, that you're able to, as you gain a skill, if you can do that in the workplace, so that there's recognition for those skills that you pick up. And that doesn't have to just come from a formalised pathway like going to university. I think there's many ways for people to acquire skills. And what we have to ensure is that the system is flexible enough to recognise when somebody is picking up a critical skill, something that is of value in the workplace, that we reward them for that.
Heidi Murphy:
And how do you go about it, Andrew? How do you reckon you get rid of this stigma or make the trades more attractive? There is a stigma.
Andrew McKellar:
Well, and that's precisely what we're saying. We are saying that these are good jobs. These are good skills to have. Vocational education and training, it's been neglected. It shouldn't be the poor cousins. So I think what we're saying is employers actually put a very important premium on those skills. We've got to continue to invest in those forms of education. We've got to ensure that people do see them as being valuable. And I think that's part of the message to young people as they come out of the school system, they look at their options. Don't just discount the opportunity to get another qualification or to go into training to build skills that ultimately will lead to a very valuable, satisfying career pathway.
Heidi Murphy:
All right, Andrew, thank you for your time.
Andrew McKellar:
Thanks, Heidi. Great to talk to you.
Heidi Murphy:
Andrew McKellar there, CEO of the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry.