ACCI chief executive officer Andrew McKellar interview on ABC RN Breakfast
Transcript: 19 August 2025
Topics: Economic Reform Roundtable, Qantas fine, NAB underpaying staff
E&OE -
Transcript:
Sally Sara:
Andrew McKellar is the CEO of the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry and will be attending all three days of the summit and he joins me now in our Parliament House studio. Andrew, welcome back to breakfast.
Andrew McKellar:
Good morning. Glad to be with you.
Sally Sara:
How bold will the contributions be from the Chamber in the next three days?
Andrew McKellar:
Oh look, I think we're coming obviously with a sense of optimism. There are some very significant challenges there that Australia has to be prepared to address. Ultimately, decisions will be up to government. But look, we've put a lot of thought into it. There's been a lot of preparation, a lot of consultation right around the Australian economy. We've talked to a lot of businesses and we've got a lot of feedback. So we think there are some important things that can be done that will just make it easier for the Australian economy to deal with the future challenges to address productivity, which ultimately drives living standards, and then also look at the budget sustainability issues.
Sally Sara:
Andrew, do you have confidence that this round table will deliver meaningful change into the economy?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, look, I think it's a great starting point and honestly what we've heard from government in the period since the election, we were very pleased to hear the Treasurer talking about productivity the day after the election. It signalled the fact that the government does want to set up that agenda, and I think business is up for that discussion. We go in with our eyes open and ultimately there will be some tough decisions that have to be made. Sometimes there are going to be winners and losers in these processes, but I think if we don't have some of those tough conversations, then the risk is that we will end up in a much worse place.
Sally Sara:
The Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has hosed down the prospect of major tax reform emerging from the Roundtable. Is that a missed opportunity in your view?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, what we'd encourage the government to do is to put comprehensive tax reform on the agenda. Those sorts of things don't happen overnight. I think you've got to go back and look at all the options, really do a root and branch review. So if you're going to address some of those points, then I think that's the only way to do it.
Sally Sara:
You're among an alliance of business groups calling for a 25 per cent reduction in regulatory compliance burdens by 2030. How can you be sure that the red tape that you're proposing to cut isn't needed? It should be gone.
Andrew McKellar:
Oh, no. Look, I think here there's good regulation and there's bad regulation, so it's not that all regulation is bad. Obviously we do need certain standards, certain systems that are built around things like safety and the effective functioning of the economy. But I think what we've seen in Australia over a number of years now is a tendency to see an issue in a particular area regulated and then really not ask the questions upfront about is that necessary? What's the impact of that? Is it beneficial? And what we're seeing in practise for many businesses is they're simply being tied in knots. They cannot do the simple things, get on, employ people, undertake investment, create jobs, and create wealth for the nation. There are just too many constraints. And I think that the chair of the Productivity Commission was correct yesterday in saying we have to address some of those issues
Sally Sara:
On a separate issue, turning to yesterday's Federal Court decision to fine Qantas a record $90 million for illegally sacking more than 1800 workers during the pandemic in 2020, unions say the outcome sends a message to corporate Australia because a part of that money is going to the union itself. What's the business reaction to that decision yesterday?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, look, the decision, the imposition of the fine is of course the outcome of the court process. I think the question that we would have about that is a particular aspect of the decision, and that is to award $50 million to the Transport Workers Union. We do think that is, I think of concern because the question then is, does this set of precedent, it's an incredible amount of money. The union itself wasn't directly impacted. Of course, it's some of the employees within Qantas and they deserve compensation. But the issue there is does it set a precedent and does it encourage other unions in the future to litigate whether there's merit in their claims or not?
Sally Sara:
Justice Lee was making it clear that part of the reasoning was to give it the ability to fight some of these cases under the Fair Work Act. Are you worried about that becoming a model of operation?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, we are concerned because it does, it seems to be a direct encouragement now. I mean in this particular case...
Sally Sara:
They were right.
Andrew McKellar:
Well, they were right. They were borne out. It was taken to the highest court in the land. So that is the outcome. But I think the concern is that what it will do is embolden others for the future to undertake litigation regardless of the meri ts, in the hope that they can get to a certain point, secure a settlement simply because the potential is there for it to be a significant financial risk. And I'm not sure that's a good thing.
Sally Sara:
On the National Australia Bank, NAB has flagged a $130 million hit after revealing it, underpaid staff wages and entitlements. Why do these kind of cases keep happening?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, I think there are a number of reasons, and in this case, this is a very large financial institution. They have significant resources to put in place to manage and ensure compliance with payroll. And I think we keep seeing things like this. These are not instances of deliberate deliberately withholding or underpaying,
Sally Sara:
But It keeps happening.
Andrew McKellar:
But it keeps happening. And I think one of the things we would say here is it demonstrates the importance of focusing on getting these awards, getting these agreements and the different pay rates and so on. Simplify that, make it easier for a business to comply to ensure that you are paying staff correctly. A lot of businesses, of course, pay above award, and it's because one of the reasons is because they want to mitigate the risk that they make errors on the downside. So I think it's about simplifying awards, making it easier for business to comply, not having thousands of different rates in a single award and all sorts of different provisions around penalties and allowances and so on. That makes it very difficult to comply at times
Sally Sara:
When we return to the economic round table. Do you think there's any issue this week that you will agree on with the ACTU?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, look, that remains to be seen. I think we've seen some puzzling ideas from the ACTU in the lead up. We want to see them come with
Sally Sara:
What are you referring to specifically?
Andrew McKellar:
Well, I think the sort of ideas around going to a four day week. We've seen other things in the past day or two. So look, I think here it's about productivity and productivity shouldn't be misrepresented, it shouldn't be misunderstood. It's not about working harder and having to be longer, it's about working smarter, in fact, getting a greater output for the same level of input or being able to be more flexible in the future. So it's something that benefits business it's something that benefits workers. Given that that's the case, let's come forward with some positive ideas. Let's be prepared to compromise on a few points, and then I think we'll see that there are opportunities for a win-win at the end of the day.
Sally Sara:
Andrew McKellar, thank you very much for coming into the studio again.
Andrew McKellar:
Thanks very much.